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王力雄:会面并非最重要

 

图为2005年6月在中国瑞士大使馆举行第4次藏中会谈。其中右排有洛地嘉日、格桑坚赞,左排有朱维群、斯塔。

 

 

目前,对于西藏问题如何解决,各方面的呼吁主要集中在希望中国领导人与达赖喇嘛会面上。

这种会面肯定是有意义的,但我认为不应该被当作唯一指望。其实相比之下,是否会面并不是最重要的。毛泽东与蒋介石会过面,历史没有因此变化;以色列的拉宾和巴勒斯坦的阿拉法特、韩国的金大中和朝鲜的金正日、还有其他一些敌对阵营的领袖都曾会过面,效果也不如期望的那样。

如果没有改变内心的敌对立场,仅仅是迫于压力,把会面当作一种对外表演,或是达到自身目的的权谋,那么即使会面了,也只有形式上的意义,除了可以给媒体制造新闻,不会有多少实际价值,反而会掩盖问题的实质,拖延问题的解决。

此前中国政府与达赖喇嘛特使的六次会谈就是这样——面见了,话谈了,但是从最初被誉为“破冰之旅”,到达赖喇嘛最终表示未取得任何进展,六次会谈不但没发生正面效果,反而促使西藏阵营的独立派和强硬路线占了上风,缩小了中间道路和温和派的空间。西藏爆发的这次动荡,六次会谈的无效肯定是因素之一。由此也可以同样展望,如果中共领导人和达赖喇嘛会了面,却没有具体成果,那样的结局可能要比不会面还糟。

我认为,西藏问题的解决首先应该是中国政府进行自我反省,以往实行的民族政策究竟出了什么问题,为什么投入那么大力量,花费那么多金钱,藏区的不满和动荡不但没有减少,反而在二十年后扩大了很多。如此明显的失败,说明一定是存在根本上的错误,才会导致这种适得其反。因此对当前而言,重要的是改变错误的民族政策,才可能走上解决西藏问题的正途。

怕的就是不从自己方面找原因,而是坚持把责任推到“达赖集团有预谋、有组织的精心策划”上。这种推卸可以使各级官员避免因为自身失职而受追究,因此是官员集团最希望形成的定论。他们会千方百计地把各种调查、处置往这个结论上引。然而若是沿着这种轨道走下去,一定会被当前的政治体制变成对藏人的新一轮高压、清查和迫害。结果西藏问题不但得不到解决,反而会播下比以往更多的仇恨,积累更多的不满,未来只要一有可能,就会以比今天还要大的规模和更猛烈的状态爆发。

 

2008-4

(本文为RFA自由亚洲藏语专题节目,任何转载请注明。)

 

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23条记录访客评论

达赖喇嘛陛下是他们的精神寄托,是内心和谐平安的源泉

Post by zx on 2008, November 6, 8:59 PM 引用此文发表评论 #1

对王先生的“天葬”很感兴趣!费很大气力从境外买回保存至今,您的新书一定设法买;
请您指教几个问题:1)所谓共产党(1950年以来)的西藏民族政策和满清政府、北洋政府、民国政府对藏政策有何不同?
2)今日之西藏是被汉化了,还是被西化了?中国文化是否已与150年前有很大不同?有没有被西化?
3)在全球经济一体化过程中,西藏百年前的社会形态和文化、风俗习惯能否完全保存?又该如何扬弃?

Post by yunquan on 2008, May 23, 11:32 AM 引用此文发表评论 #2

唯色女士王力雄先生,
非常你们喜欢你们写的许多书,然而我不得不诚恳地说,你们的这个博客令我相当失望,因为我觉得你们的博客没有做到很好的藏汉民族之间的沟通的角色,你们应该可以做的更好<
我认为有以下问题.
一,立场倾向太强,这个博客的内容完全可以做为西藏流亡政府的宣传网站之一,也就是说如果中国人能接受贵博客的话,那么他们直接去看西藏流亡政府网页就可以了.也就是说这博客不能吸引更多的中国人的支持.
二,怨气太重. 过多对专制的恨,而少了基于人性的爱.过多对自由或信仰的坚持,却忽略某种不偏不倚的公道. 只顾着对政府压制西藏自由的揭批,却忘了表达对314事件中无辜汉回民众的同情. 只顾着对西藏自由事业的坚持,却忘了对时事动态的跟踪,没有显示出一点点中国人的心<
当全体华人都在忧心着地震中生死未卜的人民的时候,你们念念不忘仍然还是揭批阿垻地方政府的反分裂口号,你们的所为有能比这个政府高多少
在阿垻州地震中有多少藏族灾民,他们的状况如何
在地震中心的纹县有近两万藏族灾民,他们还生死未卜
在关心你们的西藏自由事业,以及那些西藏自由斗士的遭遇之余,也请关心一下他们
、、、、、、、、、
我同意,相信这是藏汉民族和谐的论坛,而不是相反。就像
藏族小妹与汉族小伙子的爱情一样,圆圆满满,和和气气!

祝我们的祖国强大!

Post by 何必伤心 on 2008, May 19, 1:44 AM 引用此文发表评论 #3

立场决定思维,没说的。

Post by 骏马 on 2008, May 18, 11:57 PM 引用此文发表评论 #4

引用 SUPERQ 说过的话:
唯色女士王力雄先生,
非常你们喜欢你们写的许多书,然而我不得不诚恳地说,你们的这个博客令我相当失望,因为我觉得你们的博客没有做到很好的藏汉民族之间的沟通的角色,你们应该可以做的更好<
我认为有以下问题.
一,立场倾向太强,这个博客的内容完全可以做为西藏流亡政府的宣传网站之一,也就是说如果中国人能接受贵博客的话,那么他们直接去看西藏流亡政府网页就可以了.也就是说这博客不能吸引更多的中国人的支持.
二,怨气太重. 过多对专制的恨,而少了基于人性的爱.过多对自由或信仰的坚持,却忽略某种不偏不倚的公道. 只顾着对政府压制西藏自由的揭批,却忘了表达对314事件中无辜汉回民众的同情. 只顾着对西藏自由事业的坚持,却忘了对时事动态的跟踪,没有显示出一点点中国人的心<
当全体华人都在忧心着地震中生死未卜的人民的时候,你们念念不忘仍然还是揭批阿垻地方政府的反分裂口号,你们的所为有能比这个政府高多少
在阿垻州地震中有多少藏族灾民,他们的状况如何
在地震中心的纹县有近两万藏族灾民,他们还生死未卜
在关心你们的西藏自由事业,以及那些西藏自由斗士的遭遇之余,也请关心一下他们


严重同意!!相信王老师能调整过来。

Post by 趾头 on 2008, May 18, 10:36 PM 引用此文发表评论 #5

hehe  
究竟什么叫做水平高,咱不懂。但是至少做人讲话要尊重事实。造谣中伤,信口开河, 只会让人怀疑可信度。

你这样血口喷人,莫非就是和你家王老师学的?

垃圾一个!


[quote=扫垃圾][/quote]

Post by immer on 2008, May 15, 8:29 PM 引用此文发表评论 #6

内蒙古已经差不多是地理名词了
如果西藏再乱下去
总有一天它也会变成地理名词的。

只有藏汉和谐才能拯救藏文明

Post by TB on 2008, May 14, 11:50 PM 引用此文发表评论 #7

大藏区不成,免谈!!!

Post by 免谈 on 2008, May 14, 9:18 PM 引用此文发表评论 #8

引用 immer 说过的话:
王力雄这人不咋地阿~   前几天发了个留学生都是高干子弟的狗皮文章,结果让我这个农民出身的留学生对他“刮目相看”... 当然,我以前也不知道他是干啥的 ...
hehe


就凭你写这几句话的水平,算了吧,
有你这种留学生,别把有高尚道德农民的脸丢光了,
也丢尽有文化的中国人的脸,
我看你是投机倒把的官宦子弟还差不多!真可耻!
家里能帮你搞了黑钱能出国,
嫌钱多的话,就快捐点救灾去,
别在这瞎扯!

Post by 扫垃圾 on 2008, May 14, 2:19 AM 引用此文发表评论 #9

引用 游客 说过的话:
王力雄错了,关键不是CGD不反省,CGD错在没有认清西藏的僧侣阶层的愚昧,残忍,贪婪和无耻。这些僧侣历史上打打杀杀,无休止的自相残杀。略懂一点历史知识的人都知道14个达赖喇嘛只有3个活到成年。对这些愚昧的僧侣,CGD就是太仁慈了,该关的要关,该杀的要杀。这些人才是西藏的祸根。


中国不能进步,就是你这种没大脑的垃圾太多了!批评别人也要有点水平.

Post by 扫垃圾 on 2008, May 14, 2:06 AM 引用此文发表评论 #10

我靠~~  你老太有见识和才华了。像你老这样这么有才华的人,还愁将来不飞黄腾达? 等你飞黄腾达的时候,再一展抱负吧, 呵呵~~




引用 权啊权 说过的话:
老百姓最缺的是权啊!
我若是一个有权势的汉人,不妨以大事小、放低姿态去说服藏流亡政府。
给胡紧掏一些立马可实行的建议:
1.让达赖和班禅成为全中国的精神领袖,开播藏传佛教专题电视频道,让藏语基本会话、蒙语基本会话、维语基本会话等教程成为大学生必(选)修课程。
2.策动人大代表提出议案,将西藏自治区区旗定为“雪山狮子旗”、台湾地区区旗为“青天白日满地红”,新疆自治区区旗为东突旗,香港自治区区旗仍为紫荆花红旗。
3.以中央领导个人名义,立即邀请达赖喇嘛回京观看8月8号举办的奥运,包括开幕式、各场精彩赛事、闭幕式。涛声依旧不见当初斗争的血光,几张奥运门票啊,能否让达赖和流亡藏胞踏上回归的客船? 期间以家宴方式邀请达赖喇嘛吃京味特色菜肴,以个人感情促民族亲情。在奥运结束后陪同达赖去西藏老家看看。多谈个人实话,少说政治大话和套话。真诚是当下政治和政客的必备,也是最缺的。
4.主动规定,奥运火炬境内传递,允许民众沿途抗议示威。那些有怨有仇的,那些上访的民怨,都让他们按宪法规定借奥运火炬传递之机,展示出来吧。当然也允许藏族人沿途抗议,给奥运火炬手电视镜头特写时,也顺便镜头里展现沿途抗议群众的各种心声表达,他们的抗议标语、呼喊等等。真正和谐的中国,不应少了宪政赋予的基本人权,真正和谐中国是人的国度,不是神的完美国度,有这样那样的矛盾和毛病,展示出来并非不和谐。借此奥运之际,让民众发出怨气,伸张冤屈,表明今日中国已从灵魂层面而不仅仅是经济金钱层面上完全开放,融入世界潮流之中。
5.将全中国划为文化“大藏区”。明确告知藏流亡同胞,现在的行政区划很难动,往往牵一发动全身,就是说行政上大藏区难以猝然促成,但中央乐见文化上的大藏区,而且我们划出的文化大藏区比藏同胞要求的还要大,整个中国都是这个文化大藏区。
6.给予藏人真正自治权。其他少数民族,同权。宪法明细规定。只要不逾权,还怕搞独立和分裂?而且如果要修法,也走民主程序,但自治权保障不变,藏区驻军地位不变,如果真正享受充分自治,真正享有各项权利保障,包括藏文化、语言、宗教等必有权利,谁又想与中国民选政权搞分裂呢?
7.告知藏人同胞,未来中国一定是民主政体,藏人作为中华民族一员,有选举产生为全国最高元首的权利。而且在保障各应有少数民族权利和福祉基础上,民主选举过程中一旦藏族或其他少数民族、极少数民族(象前卫生部长马海德那样的美利坚族)与汉族候选人票数接近,宪法判少数族裔候选人当选。还有其他类似权益,也以法律规范方式去依法照顾少数族裔的权利。
社会和谐,民族团结。有梦最美,希望相随!
可惜,上述能够立即着手规划和实行的梦想,当权的党政大员和权贵们永远不会去做。试看今朝域内,竟是谁人当权?肉食者鄙,蠢人当家。其仅不过是一个普通汉人所意淫的白日梦而已!其永远不会有见天日的那天!如果说任何国家的发展都不会一帆风顺是实事求是的话,那藏族与汉族的分家,其他少数民族地区与中华民族的脱钩,这些可预见后果,也只争来迟与来早了!

Post by 做事不是靠yy on 2008, May 14, 1:31 AM 引用此文发表评论 #11

王力雄这人不咋地阿~   前几天发了个留学生都是高干子弟的狗皮文章,结果让我这个农民出身的留学生对他“刮目相看”... 当然,我以前也不知道他是干啥的 ...

hehe

Post by immer on 2008, May 14, 1:27 AM 引用此文发表评论 #12

To: SUPERQ = 癞蛤蟆

Post by qili on 2008, May 14, 12:56 AM 引用此文发表评论 #13

唯色什么时候说过藏汉友好之类的话了?绝对没有!

Post by Kar on 2008, May 13, 11:36 PM 引用此文发表评论 #14

Indeed, Tibetans are divided on the issue of whether or not the benefits of being a part of China outweigh the negatives. "Tibetans are divided," noted Jonathon Watts. There are those "independence activists" who expressed disapproval of the railway because they are against being a part of China , and who therefore regard the new line as evidence that Beijing is out to further entrench their rule, while others acknowledged the good that the trains might bring. "I was surprised to find a living Buddha make one of the strongest arguments in favour of the railway," wrote Watts . "'We've been too backward, too isolated for too long,' said the lama, who asked that his name not be used. 'The rest of the world is in the 21st century. We are still in the middle ages.' A more predictable advocate was the governor of the Tibetan Autonomous Region, Jampa Pahtsok. "It is unimaginable to have a high growth rate without a railroad.'" (see The Guardian, Sep.20, 2005)

And life is improving for many Tibetan farmers also, as Goldstein and Beall's research (mentioned earlier) shows. When Dexter Roberts came across villagers in Northern Tibet's Nagqu Prefecture , he discovered that most of the villagers (barley farmers and herdsmen) were quite content. "Life isn't bad at all", he quoted one villager as saying. (see " Tibet : Caught in China 's Two Hands", Business Week Online, Sep.19, 2003).

It may well be unreasonable to argue that most Tibetans don't want some form of self-government. But it likely is presumptuous to say that the majority of Tibetans want independence. Maybe they do. But to assert with confidence that most want independence without supporting such a claim with any empirically verifiable evidence of a quantitative nature is questionable, especially when there is a growing amount of qualitative evidence to show that Tibetans are divided on such issues. Even the Dalai Lama himself says that he no longer wants total independence from China , but instead, some form of self-government.

Take a closer, more objective look at Tibet today. The mass protests have stopped. As Robert Barnett, author of " Lhasa : Streets with Memories" (published by Columbia University Press) stated in an interview back in April 2006, " Tibet has become a dispute in which the main weapons are forms of economic change that have benefits and drawbacks: the market, the leisure industry, mass tourism, population shift, uneven wealth, and consumerism."

It won't be all that much longer before Lhasa's main thoroughfares find themselves hosting McDonald's, KFC, and Pizza Hut fast food outlets, along with Starbuck's and other such global enterprises. And don't be too surprised if some of the license holders turn out to be ethnic Tibetans.

Some argue that " Tibet and Tibetans might [have] been very different had China not invaded, but for sure they would be sovereign masters of their own destiny." In response, consider how many ordinary Tibetans were ever the "masters of their own destinies". That's not intended to justify China 's invasion and occupation of Tibet , which was carried out for geopolitical reasons and largely in response to continual incursions by Britain and Russia - and which therefore needs to be viewed in the context of the Cold War. The Kuomintang of course consistently made it clear that they intended on invading and occupying Tibet, and had they defeated the PLA, they probably would have gone on to do just that. Had that been the case, I bet the U.S. State Department wouldn't have objected.

But let us not romanticize the life of Tibetans prior to the invasion either. As Michael Parenti (and many others like Leigh Feigon, in his book "Demystifying Tibet" has documented, Tibet "was a retrograde theocracy of serfdom and poverty, where a favoured few lived high and mighty off the blood, sweat, and tears of the many. It was a long way from Shangri-La."

And "whatever wrongs and new oppressions introduced by the Chinese in Tibet , after 1959 they did abolish slavery and the serfdom system of unpaid labour, and put an end to floggings, mutilations, and amputations as a form of criminal punishment. They eliminated the many crushing taxes, started work projects, and greatly reduced unemployment and beggary. They established secular education, thereby breaking the educational monopoly of the monasteries. And they constructed running water and electrical systems in Lhasa ."

Finally, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the Tibetans in exile and their supporters have consistently exaggerated the human rights abuses that have taken place in Tibet , as Barry Sautman and others have convincingly demonstrated. Such exaggerations from the Tibetan community in exile come as no surprise though. As Michael Parenti says:

"For the rich lamas and lords, the Communist intervention was a calamity. Most of them fled abroad, as did the Dalai Lama himself, who was assisted in his flight by the CIA... throughout the 1960s, the Tibetan exile community was secretly pocketing $1.7 million a year from the CIA, according to documents released by the State Department in 1998. Once this fact was publicized, the Dalai Lama's organisation itself issued a statement admitting that it had received millions of dollars from the CIA during the 1960s to send armed squads of exiles into Tibet to undermine the Maoist revolution. The Dalai Lama's annual payment from the CIA was $186,000. Indian intelligence also financed both him and other Tibetan exiles. He has refused to say whether he or his brothers worked for the CIA. The agency has also declined to comment....Today, mostly through the National Endowment for Democracy and other conduits that are more respectable-sounding than the CIA, the US Congress continues to allocate an annual $2 million to Tibetans in India, with additional millions for 'democracy activities' within the Tibetan exile community."

Post by oudai on 2008, May 13, 11:35 PM 引用此文发表评论 #15

Some Human Rights Charges by Tibetan Exiles Against the Chinese Government:

It is not unusual to here protesters putting forth the idea that Tibetans were fiercely suppressed and Tibetan languages and culture is being destroyed. The following was written by an Australian teaching in China for five years in response to these charges:

Let us look at the evidence. If Tibetans were so fiercely suppressed, and if Chinese leaders in Beijing were really out to Sinocize Tibet by increasing the ethnic ratio of Han to Tibetan, then why are all Tibetan families permitted to have up to three children, and are only fined small amounts of money if they exceed this number? Tibetan families in Tibet average 3.8 children, larger than Tibetan families in India . In fact, the population of Tibet in 1959 was only about 1.19 million. Today however, the population of Greater Tibet is 7.3 million, of which, according to the 2000 census, 6 million are ethnic Tibetans. If we consider the Tibet Autonomous Region only, then according to the census conducted in 2000, as referred to in Wikipedia, "there were 2,616,300 people in Tibet , with Tibetans totalling 2,411,100 or 92.2% of the current regional population. The census also revealed that the Tibetan's average lifespan has increased to 68 due to the improving standard of living and access to medical services." In 1950 the average lifespan was only 35, and "infant mortality has dropped from 43% in 1950 to 0.661% in 2000."

As Barry Sautman, who is Associate Professor of Social Science at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology points out in his study on " Tibet and the (Mis-)Representation of Cultural Genocide", "the state sponsored transfer [of Han Chinese] to Tibet is on a small scale. From 1994 to 2001 the PRC organized only a few thousand people to go to Tibet as cadres. Most serve only 3 years and then return to China . Those who move on their own to the Tibet Autonomous Region usually return to China in a few years. They come for a while, find the cities of Tibet too expensive, and then return to China . Some of the 72,000 Chinese who maintain their 'hukou' [household registration] in Tibet don't really live there. Pensions are higher if your household is registered in Tibet ."

These facts are supported by articles in the Columbia Journal of Asian Law and by an Australian Chinese demographer in Asian Ethnicity in 2000, and show that the claims of ethnic swamping in Tibet are misleading. "What I think these articles show," says Barry Sautman, "is that there is no evidence of significant population losses over the whole period from the 1950s to the present. There are some losses during he Great Leap Forward but these were less in Tibetan areas than in other parts of China . Where these were serious were in Sichuan and Qinghai , but even there not as serious in the Han areas of China . There are no bases at all for the figures used regularly by the exile groups. They use the figure of 1.2 million Tibetans dying from the 1950s to the 1970s, but no source for this is given. As a lawyer I give no credence to statistics for which there is no data, no visible basis."

Tibetans in exile and their supporters seem to pull such figures out of a hat in the same way that the Chinese exile Harry Wu does in relation to the number of mainland prisoners (see my piece On the Nature of Chinese Governance and Society for details).

Barry Sautman also convincingly challenges claims that the Tibetan language is being devalued and replaced by Chinese. "92-94% of ethnic Tibetans speak Tibetan," he notes. "Instruction in primary school is pretty universally in Tibetan. Chinese is bilingual from secondary school onward. All middle schools in the TAR also teach Tibetan. In Lhasa there are about equal time given to Chinese, Tibetan, and English."

There is also an upsurge of the performing arts, poetry and painting by Tibetans, which many visitors to Tibet today cannot fail to notice, all of which are encouraged and funded by Beijing, though of course the growing tourist market also plays an important role in encouraging Tibetans to continue practicing their traditional arts and crafts, albeit, in a commodified form.

Importantly, Sautman, like me, has observed surprisingly "few aspects of Chinese culture in Tibet , but there are many aspects of Western culture, such as jeans, disco music, etc."

Barry Sautman's views are by no means marginalized within Western academia either. Tony Colin Mackerras, Professor Emeritus of International Business and Asian Studies at Griffith University, Australia, for example, remarked that Suatman's book "is a courageous and long overdue study of a highly emotional and extremely important topic' in that it meticulously details and documents "the processes of cultural change in religion, the arts, language, migration and various other aspects" which are rightly attributed "mainly to Westernized modernity."

Another interesting and insightful study is the one carried out by Melvyn C. Goldstein, who is Professor and Chairman, Department of Anthropology, and Director of the Center for Research on Tibet at Case Western Reserve University , Cleveland , Ohio , and Cynthia M. Beall, who is Professor of Anthropology at Case Western Reserve University . Their study, titled "The Impact of China's Reform Policy on the Nomads of Western Tibet", was carried out over a 16 month period in the Tibet Autonomous Region, and was supported by grants from the National Academy of Sciences' Committee on Scholarly Communication with the People's Republic of China, the Committee on Research and Exploration of the National Geographic Society, and the National Science Foundation.

It's worth quoting at length from their conclusion:

"The new Chinese economic and cultural policies implemented in Tibet following Hu Yaobang's investigation tour in May of 1980 have produced a major transformation in Phala. Following decollectivisation, the nomads' economy immediately reverted to the traditional household system of production and management, which, enhanced by the concession on taxes, has led to an overall improvement in the standard of living even though local-level officials have not completely implemented an open (or negotiated) market system. The new policies have also led to increasing involvement in the market economy and dramatic social and economic differentiation. Equally important, the post-1980 policies have fostered a cultural and social revitalization that has allowed the nomads to resurrect basic components of their traditional culture....life in Phala today is closer to that of the traditional era than at any time since China assumed direct administrative control over Tibet in 1959. The post-1980 reforms created conditions whereby the nomadic pastoralists of Phala were able to regain control of their lives and recreate a matrix of values, norms, and beliefs that is psychologically and culturally meaningful. The new polices have, in essence, vindicated the nomads' belief in the worth of their nomadic way of life and their Tibetan ethnicity."

Tyler Denison reached similar conclusions in his study, titled "Reaffirmation of 'Ritual Cosmos': Tibetan Perceptions of Landscape and Socio-Economic Development in Southwest China", published quite recently in the Spring 2006 edition of the University of New Hampshire Undergraduate Research Journal .

"Rather than finding Tibetan tradition being destroyed by Chinese rule and the influx of people, goods and ideas from the modern world," concludes Denison , "I witnessed firsthand the importance of Kawa Karpo and the ritual cosmos in the lives of the Tibetans of Deqin county: it has not been diminished. Tibetans' enduring perception of the landscape as a ritual cosmos cannot be termed a static reality of tradition, but more a dynamic cultural process, as they are continually renegotiating and redefining their beliefs in light of new social and economic realities."

And by the way, most Tibetans, if you ever get a chance to visit Tibet and to converse with the Tibetan locals, will tell you that they are not "forced" to learn Chinese, but rather, do so keenly, and on the expectation that being fluent in both Chinese and English will help to empower themselves by broadening their future employment opportunities.

In fact, as Tsering Shakya has pointed out in a paper he wrote for the New Left Review in 2002, "Tibetans are indeed well represented on bodies like the National People's Congress and the People's Consultative Conference. In fact I would go further and say that they are over-represented, given the size of the Tibetan population." And don't forget the role that many Tibetans themselves played in the destruction of monasteries and the various persecutions that took place in Tibet during the Cultural Revolution. Let's not deny the people of Tibet of any agency.

Let us take attitudes towards the Beijing to Lhasa railway as evidence that Tibetans embrace Chinese investment in Tibet . In the lead-up to the opening of that railway, the Dalai Lama expressed fears that the railway was going to aid in the Sinocisation of Tibet, and this was quickly seized on by Tibetans in exile support groups throughout the Western world as a development that would aid in Beijing's alleged policy of genocide. Such claims of course, excited the imaginations of many ordinary Tibetans, many of who not surprisingly then expressed suspicions about what the new train line would bring them. But as many tourists and journalists to Tibet soon discovered, many urban ethnic Tibetans felt as though the positives would outweigh the negatives, and this is because an increasing number of Tibetans now have a very real material stake in the new economy. Their living standards are improving, and although Han retailers and small businesses stand to benefit more from increases in tourism and trade, the fact is that this will likely change as more and more Tibetans accumulate sufficient enough capital to start up enterprises of their own. And many Tibetans know this. Jonathon Watts, of The Guardian newspaper, reported that "Among the four or five unscheduled meetings I had with Tibetans, most were looking forward to the economic benefits the line is expected to bring: 2.5m tonnes of cargo and 1m tourists and business people."

Post by oudai on 2008, May 13, 11:32 PM 引用此文发表评论 #16

Some Human Rights Charges by Tibetan Exiles Against the Chinese Government:

It is not unusual to here protesters putting forth the idea that Tibetans were fiercely suppressed and Tibetan languages and culture is being destroyed. The following was written by an Australian teaching in China for five years in response to these charges:

Let us look at the evidence. If Tibetans were so fiercely suppressed, and if Chinese leaders in Beijing were really out to Sinocize Tibet by increasing the ethnic ratio of Han to Tibetan, then why are all Tibetan families permitted to have up to three children, and are only fined small amounts of money if they exceed this number? Tibetan families in Tibet average 3.8 children, larger than Tibetan families in India . In fact, the population of Tibet in 1959 was only about 1.19 million. Today however, the population of Greater Tibet is 7.3 million, of which, according to the 2000 census, 6 million are ethnic Tibetans. If we consider the Tibet Autonomous Region only, then according to the census conducted in 2000, as referred to in Wikipedia, "there were 2,616,300 people in Tibet , with Tibetans totalling 2,411,100 or 92.2% of the current regional population. The census also revealed that the Tibetan's average lifespan has increased to 68 due to the improving standard of living and access to medical services." In 1950 the average lifespan was only 35, and "infant mortality has dropped from 43% in 1950 to 0.661% in 2000."

As Barry Sautman, who is Associate Professor of Social Science at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology points out in his study on " Tibet and the (Mis-)Representation of Cultural Genocide", "the state sponsored transfer [of Han Chinese] to Tibet is on a small scale. From 1994 to 2001 the PRC organized only a few thousand people to go to Tibet as cadres. Most serve only 3 years and then return to China . Those who move on their own to the Tibet Autonomous Region usually return to China in a few years. They come for a while, find the cities of Tibet too expensive, and then return to China . Some of the 72,000 Chinese who maintain their 'hukou' [household registration] in Tibet don't really live there. Pensions are higher if your household is registered in Tibet ."

These facts are supported by articles in the Columbia Journal of Asian Law and by an Australian Chinese demographer in Asian Ethnicity in 2000, and show that the claims of ethnic swamping in Tibet are misleading. "What I think these articles show," says Barry Sautman, "is that there is no evidence of significant population losses over the whole period from the 1950s to the present. There are some losses during he Great Leap Forward but these were less in Tibetan areas than in other parts of China . Where these were serious were in Sichuan and Qinghai , but even there not as serious in the Han areas of China . There are no bases at all for the figures used regularly by the exile groups. They use the figure of 1.2 million Tibetans dying from the 1950s to the 1970s, but no source for this is given. As a lawyer I give no credence to statistics for which there is no data, no visible basis."

Tibetans in exile and their supporters seem to pull such figures out of a hat in the same way that the Chinese exile Harry Wu does in relation to the number of mainland prisoners (see my piece On the Nature of Chinese Governance and Society for details).

Barry Sautman also convincingly challenges claims that the Tibetan language is being devalued and replaced by Chinese. "92-94% of ethnic Tibetans speak Tibetan," he notes. "Instruction in primary school is pretty universally in Tibetan. Chinese is bilingual from secondary school onward. All middle schools in the TAR also teach Tibetan. In Lhasa there are about equal time given to Chinese, Tibetan, and English."

There is also an upsurge of the performing arts, poetry and painting by Tibetans, which many visitors to Tibet today cannot fail to notice, all of which are encouraged and funded by Beijing, though of course the growing tourist market also plays an important role in encouraging Tibetans to continue practicing their traditional arts and crafts, albeit, in a commodified form.

Importantly, Sautman, like me, has observed surprisingly "few aspects of Chinese culture in Tibet , but there are many aspects of Western culture, such as jeans, disco music, etc."

Barry Sautman's views are by no means marginalized within Western academia either. Tony Colin Mackerras, Professor Emeritus of International Business and Asian Studies at Griffith University, Australia, for example, remarked that Suatman's book "is a courageous and long overdue study of a highly emotional and extremely important topic' in that it meticulously details and documents "the processes of cultural change in religion, the arts, language, migration and various other aspects" which are rightly attributed "mainly to Westernized modernity."

Another interesting and insightful study is the one carried out by Melvyn C. Goldstein, who is Professor and Chairman, Department of Anthropology, and Director of the Center for Research on Tibet at Case Western Reserve University , Cleveland , Ohio , and Cynthia M. Beall, who is Professor of Anthropology at Case Western Reserve University . Their study, titled "The Impact of China's Reform Policy on the Nomads of Western Tibet", was carried out over a 16 month period in the Tibet Autonomous Region, and was supported by grants from the National Academy of Sciences' Committee on Scholarly Communication with the People's Republic of China, the Committee on Research and Exploration of the National Geographic Society, and the National Science Foundation.

It's worth quoting at length from their conclusion:

"The new Chinese economic and cultural policies implemented in Tibet following Hu Yaobang's investigation tour in May of 1980 have produced a major transformation in Phala. Following decollectivisation, the nomads' economy immediately reverted to the traditional household system of production and management, which, enhanced by the concession on taxes, has led to an overall improvement in the standard of living even though local-level officials have not completely implemented an open (or negotiated) market system. The new policies have also led to increasing involvement in the market economy and dramatic social and economic differentiation. Equally important, the post-1980 policies have fostered a cultural and social revitalization that has allowed the nomads to resurrect basic components of their traditional culture....life in Phala today is closer to that of the traditional era than at any time since China assumed direct administrative control over Tibet in 1959. The post-1980 reforms created conditions whereby the nomadic pastoralists of Phala were able to regain control of their lives and recreate a matrix of values, norms, and beliefs that is psychologically and culturally meaningful. The new polices have, in essence, vindicated the nomads' belief in the worth of their nomadic way of life and their Tibetan ethnicity."

Tyler Denison reached similar conclusions in his study, titled "Reaffirmation of 'Ritual Cosmos': Tibetan Perceptions of Landscape and Socio-Economic Development in Southwest China", published quite recently in the Spring 2006 edition of the University of New Hampshire Undergraduate Research Journal .

"Rather than finding Tibetan tradition being destroyed by Chinese rule and the influx of people, goods and ideas from the modern world," concludes Denison , "I witnessed firsthand the importance of Kawa Karpo and the ritual cosmos in the lives of the Tibetans of Deqin county: it has not been diminished. Tibetans' enduring perception of the landscape as a ritual cosmos cannot be termed a static reality of tradition, but more a dynamic cultural process, as they are continually renegotiating and redefining their beliefs in light of new social and economic realities."

And by the way, most Tibetans, if you ever get a chance to visit Tibet and to converse with the Tibetan locals, will tell you that they are not "forced" to learn Chinese, but rather, do so keenly, and on the expectation that being fluent in both Chinese and English will help to empower themselves by broadening their future employment opportunities.

In fact, as Tsering Shakya has pointed out in a paper he wrote for the New Left Review in 2002, "Tibetans are indeed well represented on bodies like the National People's Congress and the People's Consultative Conference. In fact I would go further and say that they are over-represented, given the size of the Tibetan population." And don't forget the role that many Tibetans themselves played in the destruction of monasteries and the various persecutions that took place in Tibet during the Cultural Revolution. Let's not deny the people of Tibet of any agency.

Let us take attitudes towards the Beijing to Lhasa railway as evidence that Tibetans embrace Chinese investment in Tibet . In the lead-up to the opening of that railway, the Dalai Lama expressed fears that the railway was going to aid in the Sinocisation of Tibet, and this was quickly seized on by Tibetans in exile support groups throughout the Western world as a development that would aid in Beijing's alleged policy of genocide. Such claims of course, excited the imaginations of many ordinary Tibetans, many of who not surprisingly then expressed suspicions about what the new train line would bring them. But as many tourists and journalists to Tibet soon discovered, many urban ethnic Tibetans felt as though the positives would outweigh the negatives, and this is because an increasing number of Tibetans now have a very real material stake in the new economy. Their living standards are improving, and although Han retailers and small businesses stand to benefit more from increases in tourism and trade, the fact is that this will likely change as more and more Tibetans accumulate sufficient enough capital to start up enterprises of their own. And many Tibetans know this. Jonathon Watts, of The Guardian newspaper, reported that "Among the four or five unscheduled meetings I had with Tibetans, most were looking forward to the economic benefits the line is expected to bring: 2.5m tonnes of cargo and 1m tourists and business people."

Indeed, Tibetans are divided on the issue of whether or not the benefits of being a part of China outweigh the negatives. "Tibetans are divided," noted Jonathon Watts. There are those "independence activists" who expressed disapproval of the railway because they are against being a part of China , and who therefore regard the new line as evidence that Beijing is out to further entrench their rule, while others acknowledged the good that the trains might bring. "I was surprised to find a living Buddha make one of the strongest arguments in favour of the railway," wrote Watts . "'We've been too backward, too isolated for too long,' said the lama, who asked that his name not be used. 'The rest of the world is in the 21st century. We are still in the middle ages.' A more predictable advocate was the governor of the Tibetan Autonomous Region, Jampa Pahtsok. "It is unimaginable to have a high growth rate without a railroad.'" (see The Guardian, Sep.20, 2005)

And life is improving for many Tibetan farmers also, as Goldstein and Beall's research (mentioned earlier) shows. When Dexter Roberts came across villagers in Northern Tibet's Nagqu Prefecture , he discovered that most of the villagers (barley farmers and herdsmen) were quite content. "Life isn't bad at all", he quoted one villager as saying. (see " Tibet : Caught in China 's Two Hands", Business Week Online, Sep.19, 2003).

It may well be unreasonable to argue that most Tibetans don't want some form of self-government. But it likely is presumptuous to say that the majority of Tibetans want independence. Maybe they do. But to assert with confidence that most want independence without supporting such a claim with any empirically verifiable evidence of a quantitative nature is questionable, especially when there is a growing amount of qualitative evidence to show that Tibetans are divided on such issues. Even the Dalai Lama himself says that he no longer wants total independence from China , but instead, some form of self-government.

Take a closer, more objective look at Tibet today. The mass protests have stopped. As Robert Barnett, author of " Lhasa : Streets with Memories" (published by Columbia University Press) stated in an interview back in April 2006, " Tibet has become a dispute in which the main weapons are forms of economic change that have benefits and drawbacks: the market, the leisure industry, mass tourism, population shift, uneven wealth, and consumerism."

It won't be all that much longer before Lhasa's main thoroughfares find themselves hosting McDonald's, KFC, and Pizza Hut fast food outlets, along with Starbuck's and other such global enterprises. And don't be too surprised if some of the license holders turn out to be ethnic Tibetans.

Some argue that " Tibet and Tibetans might [have] been very different had China not invaded, but for sure they would be sovereign masters of their own destiny." In response, consider how many ordinary Tibetans were ever the "masters of their own destinies". That's not intended to justify China 's invasion and occupation of Tibet , which was carried out for geopolitical reasons and largely in response to continual incursions by Britain and Russia - and which therefore needs to be viewed in the context of the Cold War. The Kuomintang of course consistently made it clear that they intended on invading and occupying Tibet, and had they defeated the PLA, they probably would have gone on to do just that. Had that been the case, I bet the U.S. State Department wouldn't have objected.

But let us not romanticize the life of Tibetans prior to the invasion either. As Michael Parenti (and many others like Leigh Feigon, in his book "Demystifying Tibet" has documented, Tibet "was a retrograde theocracy of serfdom and poverty, where a favoured few lived high and mighty off the blood, sweat, and tears of the many. It was a long way from Shangri-La."

And "whatever wrongs and new oppressions introduced by the Chinese in Tibet , after 1959 they did abolish slavery and the serfdom system of unpaid labour, and put an end to floggings, mutilations, and amputations as a form of criminal punishment. They eliminated the many crushing taxes, started work projects, and greatly reduced unemployment and beggary. They established secular education, thereby breaking the educational monopoly of the monasteries. And they constructed running water and electrical systems in Lhasa ."

Finally, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the Tibetans in exile and their supporters have consistently exaggerated the human rights abuses that have taken place in Tibet , as Barry Sautman and others have convincingly demonstrated. Such exaggerations from the Tibetan community in exile come as no surprise though. As Michael Parenti says:

"For the rich lamas and lords, the Communist intervention was a calamity. Most of them fled abroad, as did the Dalai Lama himself, who was assisted in his flight by the CIA... throughout the 1960s, the Tibetan exile community was secretly pocketing $1.7 million a year from the CIA, according to documents released by the State Department in 1998. Once this fact was publicized, the Dalai Lama's organisation itself issued a statement admitting that it had received millions of dollars from the CIA during the 1960s to send armed squads of exiles into Tibet to undermine the Maoist revolution. The Dalai Lama's annual payment from the CIA was $186,000. Indian intelligence also financed both him and other Tibetan exiles. He has refused to say whether he or his brothers worked for the CIA. The agency has also declined to comment....Today, mostly through the National Endowment for Democracy and other conduits that are more respectable-sounding than the CIA, the US Congress continues to allocate an annual $2 million to Tibetans in India, with additional millions for 'democracy activities' within the Tibetan exile community."

Post by oudai on 2008, May 13, 11:31 PM 引用此文发表评论 #17

唯色女士王力雄先生,
非常你们喜欢你们写的许多书,然而我不得不诚恳地说,你们的这个博客令我相当失望,因为我觉得你们的博客没有做到很好的藏汉民族之间的沟通的角色,你们应该可以做的更好<

我认为有以下问题.
一,立场倾向太强,这个博客的内容完全可以做为西藏流亡政府的宣传网站之一,也就是说如果中国人能接受贵博客的话,那么他们直接去看西藏流亡政府网页就可以了.也就是说这博客不能吸引更多的中国人的支持.
二,怨气太重. 过多对专制的恨,而少了基于人性的爱.过多对自由或信仰的坚持,却忽略某种不偏不倚的公道. 只顾着对政府压制西藏自由的揭批,却忘了表达对314事件中无辜汉回民众的同情. 只顾着对西藏自由事业的坚持,却忘了对时事动态的跟踪,没有显示出一点点中国人的心<
当全体华人都在忧心着地震中生死未卜的人民的时候,你们念念不忘仍然还是揭批阿垻地方政府的反分裂口号,你们的所为有能比这个政府高多少
在阿垻州地震中有多少藏族灾民,他们的状况如何
在地震中心的纹县有近两万藏族灾民,他们还生死未卜

在关心你们的西藏自由事业,以及那些西藏自由斗士的遭遇之余,也请关心一下他们

Post by SUPERQ on 2008, May 13, 10:59 PM 引用此文发表评论 #18

王力雄错了,关键不是CGD不反省,CGD错在没有认清西藏的僧侣阶层的愚昧,残忍,贪婪和无耻。这些僧侣历史上打打杀杀,无休止的自相残杀。略懂一点历史知识的人都知道14个达赖喇嘛只有3个活到成年。对这些愚昧的僧侣,CGD就是太仁慈了,该关的要关,该杀的要杀。这些人才是西藏的祸根。

Post by 游客 on 2008, May 13, 8:39 PM 引用此文发表评论 #19

引用 阿狗阿猫 说过的话:
中共政府那里敢接受你的建议。
他们怕失去权利,怕输去金钱利益。

如果你也有权利,他们一定给你背上一些“分裂“罪名。
这才能保住他们的权利和利益。如果你不逃到国外,你就永远在牢房被关起来。如果你逃到国外,就再套你多一个卖国贼的罪名。

没有人能逃出这部棋。


我们需要找到我们的 “虛竹“。

Post by 乔峰 on 2008, May 13, 7:07 PM 引用此文发表评论 #20

引用 权啊权 说过的话:
老百姓最缺的是权啊!
我若是一个有权势的汉人,不妨以大事小、放低姿态去说服藏流亡政府。
给胡紧掏一些立马可实行的建议:


好及了,我也非常同意您的建议。

引用 权啊权 说过的话:
社会和谐,民族团结。有梦最美,希望相随!

比胡锦涛说的还要好。

引用 权啊权 说过的话:
可惜,上述能够立即着手规划和实行的梦想,当权的党政大员和权贵们永远不会去做。试看今朝域内,竟是谁人当权?肉食者鄙,蠢人当家。其仅不过是一个普通汉人所意淫的白日梦而已!其永远不会有见天日的那天!如果说任何国家的发展都不会一帆风顺是实事求是的话,那藏族与汉族的分家,其他少数民族地区与中华民族的脱钩,这些可预见后果,也只争来迟与来早了!


中共政府那里敢接受你的建议。
他们怕失去权利,怕输去金钱利益。

如果你也有权利,他们一定给你背上一些“分裂“罪名。
这才能保住他们的权利和利益。如果你不逃到国外,你就永远在牢房被关起来。如果你逃到国外,就再套你多一个卖国贼的罪名。

没有人能逃出这部棋。

Post by 阿狗阿猫 on 2008, May 13, 7:01 PM 引用此文发表评论 #21

老百姓最缺的是权啊!

我若是一个有权势的汉人,不妨以大事小、放低姿态去说服藏流亡政府。

给胡紧掏一些立马可实行的建议:

1.让达赖和班禅成为全中国的精神领袖,开播藏传佛教专题电视频道,让藏语基本会话、蒙语基本会话、维语基本会话等教程成为大学生必(选)修课程。

2.策动人大代表提出议案,将西藏自治区区旗定为“雪山狮子旗”、台湾地区区旗为“青天白日满地红”,新疆自治区区旗为东突旗,香港自治区区旗仍为紫荆花红旗。

3.以中央领导个人名义,立即邀请达赖喇嘛回京观看8月8号举办的奥运,包括开幕式、各场精彩赛事、闭幕式。涛声依旧不见当初斗争的血光,几张奥运门票啊,能否让达赖和流亡藏胞踏上回归的客船? 期间以家宴方式邀请达赖喇嘛吃京味特色菜肴,以个人感情促民族亲情。在奥运结束后陪同达赖去西藏老家看看。多谈个人实话,少说政治大话和套话。真诚是当下政治和政客的必备,也是最缺的。

4.主动规定,奥运火炬境内传递,允许民众沿途抗议示威。那些有怨有仇的,那些上访的民怨,都让他们按宪法规定借奥运火炬传递之机,展示出来吧。当然也允许藏族人沿途抗议,给奥运火炬手电视镜头特写时,也顺便镜头里展现沿途抗议群众的各种心声表达,他们的抗议标语、呼喊等等。真正和谐的中国,不应少了宪政赋予的基本人权,真正和谐中国是人的国度,不是神的完美国度,有这样那样的矛盾和毛病,展示出来并非不和谐。借此奥运之际,让民众发出怨气,伸张冤屈,表明今日中国已从灵魂层面而不仅仅是经济金钱层面上完全开放,融入世界潮流之中。

5.将全中国划为文化“大藏区”。明确告知藏流亡同胞,现在的行政区划很难动,往往牵一发动全身,就是说行政上大藏区难以猝然促成,但中央乐见文化上的大藏区,而且我们划出的文化大藏区比藏同胞要求的还要大,整个中国都是这个文化大藏区。

6.给予藏人真正自治权。其他少数民族,同权。宪法明细规定。只要不逾权,还怕搞独立和分裂?而且如果要修法,也走民主程序,但自治权保障不变,藏区驻军地位不变,如果真正享受充分自治,真正享有各项权利保障,包括藏文化、语言、宗教等必有权利,谁又想与中国民选政权搞分裂呢?

7.告知藏人同胞,未来中国一定是民主政体,藏人作为中华民族一员,有选举产生为全国最高元首的权利。而且在保障各应有少数民族权利和福祉基础上,民主选举过程中一旦藏族或其他少数民族、极少数民族(象前卫生部长马海德那样的美利坚族)与汉族候选人票数接近,宪法判少数族裔候选人当选。还有其他类似权益,也以法律规范方式去依法照顾少数族裔的权利。


社会和谐,民族团结。有梦最美,希望相随!

可惜,上述能够立即着手规划和实行的梦想,当权的党政大员和权贵们永远不会去做。试看今朝域内,竟是谁人当权?肉食者鄙,蠢人当家。其仅不过是一个普通汉人所意淫的白日梦而已!其永远不会有见天日的那天!如果说任何国家的发展都不会一帆风顺是实事求是的话,那藏族与汉族的分家,其他少数民族地区与中华民族的脱钩,这些可预见后果,也只争来迟与来早了!

Post by 权啊权 on 2008, May 13, 5:40 PM 引用此文发表评论 #22

唯色,这下要大功告成了。中共这么背运,地震这么大,趁机闹闹好啊。他们“两手抓”,估计抓不过来吧。我们跟你一块为争取民族解放而斗争吧。

唯色万岁!唯色万万岁!你是藏人杰出的代表,世界民主运动的棋手。
王力雄万岁!王力雄万万岁!让自由的旗帜飘扬在珠穆朗玛之上吧。

汉人地震,跟我们藏人何干?报应。

Post by 无语 on 2008, May 13, 4:53 PM 引用此文发表评论 #23


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